Comments on: That was sure short-lived; UMWA backpedals on MTR http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/ Working to 'Write' a Wrong Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:18:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Denny http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-144 Denny Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:18:26 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-144 Comments to this post are closed. We would like to keep the focus on mountaintop removal on the main page of this site. To continue a discussion about the union please do so in the forum. Thanks. Comments to this post are closed. We would like to keep the focus on mountaintop removal on the main page of this site. To continue a discussion about the union please do so in the forum. Thanks.

]]> By: Brian W http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-141 Brian W Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:46:38 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-141 I got "the Battle of Blair Mountain" because I remember at how shocked I was after seeing a series on PBS. I think it was "The Appalachians"? I was appalled that the govt. sent planes to drop bombs on its own citizens. I got “the Battle of Blair Mountain” because I remember at how shocked I was after seeing a series on PBS. I think it was “The Appalachians”? I was appalled that the govt. sent planes to drop bombs on its own citizens.

]]> By: Denny http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-140 Denny Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:40:43 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-140 For my part thanks for replying Wess - and I hate to hear what you describe. It is a big issue I have with MTR - it puts coal miners out of work. My dad was a coal miner all of his life and was forced into an early retirement when Massey came to town - because of his beliefs in the union. For my part thanks for replying Wess – and I hate to hear what you describe. It is a big issue I have with MTR – it puts coal miners out of work. My dad was a coal miner all of his life and was forced into an early retirement when Massey came to town – because of his beliefs in the union.

]]> By: Wess Harris http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-139 Wess Harris Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:23:52 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-139 For what it is worth, the administration at wvu labelled me as having a "problem" way back in the 70s. They thought I was an environmentalist or something.... I lost MY deep mine job to the surface mines more than 30 years ago. My entire local, 1555, was put on the street. 93 of us as I recall. Brian, full disclosure: I published WHEN MINERS MARCH by William C. Blizzard--Bill's son. A suggestion: don't waste your time on THE BATTLE OF BLAIR MOUNTAIN.(a cut and paste job) I'll send you a "loaner" of WMM if you want to read the real deal. Be Well, Wess For what it is worth, the administration at wvu labelled me as having a “problem” way back in the 70s. They thought I was an environmentalist or something…. I lost MY deep mine job to the surface mines more than 30 years ago. My entire local, 1555, was put on the street. 93 of us as I recall.
Brian, full disclosure: I published WHEN MINERS MARCH by William C. Blizzard–Bill’s son. A suggestion: don’t waste your time on THE BATTLE OF BLAIR MOUNTAIN.(a cut and paste job) I’ll send you a “loaner” of WMM if you want to read the real deal.
Be Well,
Wess

]]> By: Brian W http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-138 Brian W Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:55:58 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-138 Wess, I'm sure your comment was directed at myself. If so, be aware that I am not in West Virginia and that my comment was just a quick thought one. Also, I have never worked in the coal fields/mines nor help a union card for that union. My comment was based on my own opinion looking from the outside in. I do know the history of the battle of employees against big coal. In fact I just received "The Battle of Blair Mountain" from Amazon. Sadly, it looks like it may be awhile till I have time to read it. Also, my comment wasn't aimed at the rank and file of the union, I have bad opinions of the leadership of the remnants of America's unions. It is nothing but political BS and I hope you don't follow your leaders blindly like the majority of the sheep in my local in the CWA. The leadership of the UMWA failed years ago when they let the companies off way too easy. How many jobs has surface mining cost you? As for being an environmentalist, I'm far from that. I'm actually a conservative republican and the union helped to turn me into that also. But how many conservatives do you know that will stand up for a union worker? How many are environmentalists? The point is that MTR is just plain wrong. You are welcome here to voice your opinion. We have forums so providing the rules are followed I have no problem discussing this with you further. Maybe we can all learn something new from it. Wess, I’m sure your comment was directed at myself. If so, be aware that I am not in West Virginia and that my comment was just a quick thought one. Also, I have never worked in the coal fields/mines nor help a union card for that union. My comment was based on my own opinion looking from the outside in. I do know the history of the battle of employees against big coal. In fact I just received “The Battle of Blair Mountain” from Amazon. Sadly, it looks like it may be awhile till I have time to read it.

Also, my comment wasn’t aimed at the rank and file of the union, I have bad opinions of the leadership of the remnants of America’s unions. It is nothing but political BS and I hope you don’t follow your leaders blindly like the majority of the sheep in my local in the CWA. The leadership of the UMWA failed years ago when they let the companies off way too easy. How many jobs has surface mining cost you?

As for being an environmentalist, I’m far from that. I’m actually a conservative republican and the union helped to turn me into that also. But how many conservatives do you know that will stand up for a union worker? How many are environmentalists?

The point is that MTR is just plain wrong. You are welcome here to voice your opinion. We have forums so providing the rules are followed I have no problem discussing this with you further.
Maybe we can all learn something new from it.

]]> By: Denny http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-137 Denny Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:56:35 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-137 Wess - first of all let me apologize, your comment was caught by this sites spam control. As far as your comment - clarification from you please. Is your comment directed at this post or the comments to this post or both? <b>Fair notice</b> - statements like this one will not be tolerated on this website. "One can only hope that folks with strong environmental interests..." Authors to this website are not environmentalists and one would only need to read a little to realize that fact. I have control over comments that are published. Painting us as environmentalist will get you banned from commenting here. Believe me, I have no problem with doing that either. I'm all for open discussion - not cheap shots. <strong>Adding to this comment</strong> for clarification. I don't have issue with environmentalist. My issue is with the fact that anybody against MTR is automatically dubbed and environmental extremist by the coal industry and in most cases that couldn't be further from the truth. Regardless of the views of each author - putting us all under the umbrella of environmentalists only serves to further the purpose of the friends of coal and <b>that</b> will not be tolerated. Wess – first of all let me apologize, your comment was caught by this sites spam control. As far as your comment – clarification from you please. Is your comment directed at this post or the comments to this post or both?

Fair notice – statements like this one will not be tolerated on this website. “One can only hope that folks with strong environmental interests…” Authors to this website are not environmentalists and one would only need to read a little to realize that fact. I have control over comments that are published. Painting us as environmentalist will get you banned from commenting here. Believe me, I have no problem with doing that either.

I’m all for open discussion – not cheap shots.

Adding to this comment for clarification.

I don’t have issue with environmentalist. My issue is with the fact that anybody against MTR is automatically dubbed and environmental extremist by the coal industry and in most cases that couldn’t be further from the truth. Regardless of the views of each author – putting us all under the umbrella of environmentalists only serves to further the purpose of the friends of coal and that will not be tolerated.

]]> By: Wess Harris http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-136 Wess Harris Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:20:14 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-136 A bit of clarification please: Phil Smith did NOT offer any change in UMWA policy at the ASA conference. What he did do was take considerable risk in joining in a discussion that he had every reason to fear might be less than receptive to his position. Cecil Roberts did not chastize Mr. Smith, he simply clarified and re-stated long time Union policy. Each and every Union worker is deserving of protection by the Union and by each Union member--that is the oath we take when joining. Certainly many difficulties face our Union and our region during these difficult times. One can only hope that folks with strong environmental interests will behave in a manner to build coalitions and understanding wherever possible--rather than follow the lead of the local media and present misleading information and half truths. If you make comments that one might reasonably conclude were made by someone on the payroll of Big Coal hoping to divide potential allies, perhaps it is time to re-phrase. No organization is perfect and any large organization that has been around longer than a week will have many built in contradictions.(not to mention the occaisional uncontrollable member) That said, when taking shots at the Union, please ask how you feel about the 8 hour day, pensions, health care, week-ends, annual vacations, and holidays. Ask yourself how many Union folks died providing them for you. Visit a Union burying ground... Solidarity, Wess A bit of clarification please: Phil Smith did NOT offer any change in UMWA policy at the ASA conference. What he did do was take considerable risk in joining in a discussion that he had every reason to fear might be less than receptive to his position. Cecil Roberts did not chastize Mr. Smith, he simply clarified and re-stated long time Union policy. Each and every Union worker is deserving of protection by the Union and by each Union member–that is the oath we take when joining.

Certainly many difficulties face our Union and our region during these difficult times. One can only hope that folks with strong environmental interests will behave in a manner to build coalitions and understanding wherever possible–rather than follow the lead of the local media and present misleading information and half truths. If you make comments that one might reasonably conclude were made by someone on the payroll of Big Coal hoping to divide potential allies, perhaps it is time to re-phrase.

No organization is perfect and any large organization that has been around longer than a week will have many built in contradictions.(not to mention the occaisional uncontrollable member) That said, when taking shots at the Union, please ask how you feel about the 8 hour day, pensions, health care, week-ends, annual vacations, and holidays. Ask yourself how many Union folks died providing them for you. Visit a Union burying ground…
Solidarity,
Wess

]]> By: Matthew Burns http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-135 Matthew Burns Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:23:26 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-135 I don't mean to throw in a blatant plug here, but the UMWA chapter of the book "Bringing Down The Mountains" by Dr. Shirley Stewart Burns can answer most/all of your questions and give you much insight on the multi-faceted conundrum of the UMWA & MTR. I don’t mean to throw in a blatant plug here, but the UMWA chapter of the book “Bringing Down The Mountains” by Dr. Shirley Stewart Burns can answer most/all of your questions and give you much insight on the multi-faceted conundrum of the UMWA & MTR.

]]> By: Denny http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-134 Denny Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:21:12 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-134 Brian the sum is somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 workers. Don't know what their total member base is. It is actually irrelevant what their reason would be for supporting a ban on MTR because the coal industry would paint it as a picture against those 700 workers and completely cover the fact it is because of the mining. That is one reason the UMWA is in a damned if they do damned if they don't situation. Brian the sum is somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 workers. Don’t know what their total member base is.

It is actually irrelevant what their reason would be for supporting a ban on MTR because the coal industry would paint it as a picture against those 700 workers and completely cover the fact it is because of the mining. That is one reason the UMWA is in a damned if they do damned if they don’t situation.

]]> By: Brian W http://endmtr.com/2008/04/21/that-was-sure-short-lived-umwa-back-pedals/comment-page-1/#comment-133 Brian W Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:52:59 +0000 http://endmtr.com/?p=132#comment-133 I do not agree with their decision. I would have to do some research, but what percentage of the total membership works in an MTR setting? Banning mountaintop removal is not a move against those working on an MTR site, it is a move for the rank and file and if those members attend meetings, they should also know that. Just a humble opinion from a former CWA steward ;-) I do not agree with their decision. I would have to do some research, but what percentage of the total membership works in an MTR setting? Banning mountaintop removal is not a move against those working on an MTR site, it is a move for the rank and file and if those members attend meetings, they should also know that. Just a humble opinion from a former CWA steward ;-)

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